inexpensive upgrades
Grand Champion
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,258
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From: Charleston, SC
RE: inexpensive upgrades
The MSD coilpack fires at 36,000 volts, while the stock coil pack fires at 40,000 volts. Take into consideration that most 400whp+ SRT-4's are still running with stock coilpacks...while the MSD does have less resistance it still isnt going to give you any kind of power increase on a stock, or even moderately modded engine because the PCM is controlling the spark timing. Same goes for the wires...
As for the exhaust, cutting out the muffler alone will not give you any performance gains when everything else is stock. For the record, the muffler itself isnt the problem (although it should eventually be addressed), the problem is the midpipe tapering down to 1 7/8" on the base Neon and SRT-4's...
As for the exhaust, cutting out the muffler alone will not give you any performance gains when everything else is stock. For the record, the muffler itself isnt the problem (although it should eventually be addressed), the problem is the midpipe tapering down to 1 7/8" on the base Neon and SRT-4's...
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 264
Likes: 0
RE: inexpensive upgrades
ORIGINAL: 03neonRT
The MSD coilpack fires at 36,000 volts, while the stock coil pack fires at 40,000 volts. Take into consideration that most 400whp+ SRT-4's are still running with stock coilpacks...while the MSD does have less resistance it still isnt going to give you any kind of power increase on a stock, or even moderately modded engine because the PCM is controlling the spark timing. Same goes for the wires...
As for the exhaust, cutting out the muffler alone will not give you any performance gains when everything else is stock. For the record, the muffler itself isnt the problem (although it should eventually be addressed), the problem is the midpipe tapering down to 1 7/8" on the base Neon and SRT-4's...
The MSD coilpack fires at 36,000 volts, while the stock coil pack fires at 40,000 volts. Take into consideration that most 400whp+ SRT-4's are still running with stock coilpacks...while the MSD does have less resistance it still isnt going to give you any kind of power increase on a stock, or even moderately modded engine because the PCM is controlling the spark timing. Same goes for the wires...
As for the exhaust, cutting out the muffler alone will not give you any performance gains when everything else is stock. For the record, the muffler itself isnt the problem (although it should eventually be addressed), the problem is the midpipe tapering down to 1 7/8" on the base Neon and SRT-4's...
And if cutting out the muffler isn't going to give any performance gains are you saying that the muffler is no more restrictive than a straight pipe?
Grand Champion
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,258
Likes: 0
From: Charleston, SC
RE: inexpensive upgrades
There is less resistance, but thee is no more current going to the spark plugs then with a stock coil pack because the PCM is controlling spark timing...how many times do I have to repeat the same things?
On a stock Neon, adding the muffler-less SRT rear section will not give you any performance gains compared to if you just kept the stock muffler on the exhaust.
On a stock Neon, adding the muffler-less SRT rear section will not give you any performance gains compared to if you just kept the stock muffler on the exhaust.
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 264
Likes: 0
RE: inexpensive upgrades
ORIGINAL: 03neonRT
There is less resistance, but thee is no more current going to the spark plugs then with a stock coil pack because the PCM is controlling spark timing...how many times do I have to repeat the same things?
On a stock Neon, adding the muffler-less SRT rear section will not give you any performance gains compared to if you just kept the stock muffler on the exhaust.
There is less resistance, but thee is no more current going to the spark plugs then with a stock coil pack because the PCM is controlling spark timing...how many times do I have to repeat the same things?
On a stock Neon, adding the muffler-less SRT rear section will not give you any performance gains compared to if you just kept the stock muffler on the exhaust.
And I'm still not seeing howa muffler can give as much air flow as a straight through exhaust.
Grand Champion
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,258
Likes: 0
From: Charleston, SC
RE: inexpensive upgrades
ORIGINAL: antitrustspider
Current is voltage divided by the resistance. Less resistance makes more voltage. Is the PCM reading the current going to and from the spark plug and sending less voltage then?
And I'm still not seeing howa muffler can give as much air flow as a straight through exhaust.
ORIGINAL: 03neonRT
There is less resistance, but thee is no more current going to the spark plugs then with a stock coil pack because the PCM is controlling spark timing...how many times do I have to repeat the same things?
On a stock Neon, adding the muffler-less SRT rear section will not give you any performance gains compared to if you just kept the stock muffler on the exhaust.
There is less resistance, but thee is no more current going to the spark plugs then with a stock coil pack because the PCM is controlling spark timing...how many times do I have to repeat the same things?
On a stock Neon, adding the muffler-less SRT rear section will not give you any performance gains compared to if you just kept the stock muffler on the exhaust.
And I'm still not seeing howa muffler can give as much air flow as a straight through exhaust.
As for the muffler, your not increasing airflow, and the stock muffler gives more then enough room assuming everything else is stock. The R/T has a more "free flowing" muffler compared to the base Neons (since it has more power), along with the better midpipe over the base Neons and SRT-4's. Slapping on the SRT-4 rear section will not give you any gains because the stock muffler is already allowing the correct amount of airflow through the system. Once you started to modify the engine more thoughouly, then you can take into consideration the affects of the muffler, but until then, the SRT rear would be for show, nothing more.
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 264
Likes: 0
RE: inexpensive upgrades
ORIGINAL: 03neonRT
The PCM is reading the output current (amperes), but it can also read the coilpacks voltage output (kV). Now, the resistance (ohms) is lower with the MSD coil, but like I posted above, the voltage output is 4kV lower then the stock coilpack. So, with the MSD lets say it has 10% less resistance compared to the stock coilpack, however, it already has 10% less voltage output potention compared to the stock coilpack (36kV vs. 40kV). The PCM will only allow a certain operation voltage, which has been pre-programmed in the PCM's memory cell lookup tables. If the PCM determines that this is either higher or lower then it should be, then it will increase or decrease as it thinks necessary. That is why the MSD is considered an "Aftermarket OEM Repalcement"...the only aftermarket coilpack that increases potential kV output, and reduces resistance is te ScreaminDeamon coilpack...
As for the muffler, your not increasing airflow, and the stock muffler gives more then enough room assuming everything else is stock. The R/T has a more "free flowing" muffler compared to the base Neons (since it has more power), along with the better midpipe over the base Neons and SRT-4's. Slapping on the SRT-4 rear section will not give you any gains because the stock muffler is already allowing the correct amount of airflow through the system. Once you started to modify the engine more thoughouly, then you can take into consideration the affects of the muffler, but until then, the SRT rear would be for show, nothing more.
ORIGINAL: antitrustspider
Current is voltage divided by the resistance. Less resistance makes more voltage. Is the PCM reading the current going to and from the spark plug and sending less voltage then?
And I'm still not seeing howa muffler can give as much air flow as a straight through exhaust.
ORIGINAL: 03neonRT
There is less resistance, but thee is no more current going to the spark plugs then with a stock coil pack because the PCM is controlling spark timing...how many times do I have to repeat the same things?
On a stock Neon, adding the muffler-less SRT rear section will not give you any performance gains compared to if you just kept the stock muffler on the exhaust.
There is less resistance, but thee is no more current going to the spark plugs then with a stock coil pack because the PCM is controlling spark timing...how many times do I have to repeat the same things?
On a stock Neon, adding the muffler-less SRT rear section will not give you any performance gains compared to if you just kept the stock muffler on the exhaust.
And I'm still not seeing howa muffler can give as much air flow as a straight through exhaust.
As for the muffler, your not increasing airflow, and the stock muffler gives more then enough room assuming everything else is stock. The R/T has a more "free flowing" muffler compared to the base Neons (since it has more power), along with the better midpipe over the base Neons and SRT-4's. Slapping on the SRT-4 rear section will not give you any gains because the stock muffler is already allowing the correct amount of airflow through the system. Once you started to modify the engine more thoughouly, then you can take into consideration the affects of the muffler, but until then, the SRT rear would be for show, nothing more.
As for the exhaust, I would have thought the muffler would have some restriction on the air flow. If it doesn't restrict any air flow at all, then yes the SRT-4 exhaust would be uselss.
Champion
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,519
Likes: 0
From: Cedar Rapids, IA
RE: inexpensive upgrades
Geez will you guys knock it off already? I used to build the damn coil packs in our cars in the factory in Dundee, MI (Diamond Electric)... right down the street from the new World Engine plant.
The stock coilpack in our cars will produce up to 44,000 volts off of the secondary posts (plug-wire terminals). The only advantage to the MSD coil is that itis less stressful onthe ignitors in the PCM, and has less resistance in the pack itself... but 03 is right, it DOES NOT send more power through the wires or to the plugs, actually slightly less.
There is a bit of current in that voltage, but that is not the point behind spark plugs. You can have 1,000,000 amps of current on-hand, but if you're carrying it through a conductor at 1 volt, you'll never get a spark to jump the gap between a mosquito's *********. Voltage is the key to creating an efficient spark. Generally speaking, the higher the voltage, the stronger the spark and longer in length you can make the spark become.
As far as plug wires, they should be about 8000 ohms per total foot for our ignition coils and plugs. This resistance cuts down on some of the current load and retains the voltage within the insulation of the plug wires. Without this resistance, plugs would burn out too quickly, and more importantly you'd run the risk of arcing inside of your coilpack itself between the primary and secondary windings... and if that happens, kiss your coilpack goodbye.
The stock coilpack in our cars will produce up to 44,000 volts off of the secondary posts (plug-wire terminals). The only advantage to the MSD coil is that itis less stressful onthe ignitors in the PCM, and has less resistance in the pack itself... but 03 is right, it DOES NOT send more power through the wires or to the plugs, actually slightly less.
There is a bit of current in that voltage, but that is not the point behind spark plugs. You can have 1,000,000 amps of current on-hand, but if you're carrying it through a conductor at 1 volt, you'll never get a spark to jump the gap between a mosquito's *********. Voltage is the key to creating an efficient spark. Generally speaking, the higher the voltage, the stronger the spark and longer in length you can make the spark become.
As far as plug wires, they should be about 8000 ohms per total foot for our ignition coils and plugs. This resistance cuts down on some of the current load and retains the voltage within the insulation of the plug wires. Without this resistance, plugs would burn out too quickly, and more importantly you'd run the risk of arcing inside of your coilpack itself between the primary and secondary windings... and if that happens, kiss your coilpack goodbye.
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 264
Likes: 0
RE: inexpensive upgrades
ORIGINAL: ptschafer
Geez will you guys knock it off already? I used to build the damn coil packs in our cars in the factory in Dundee, MI (Diamond Electric)... right down the street from the new World Engine plant.
The stock coilpack in our cars will produce up to 44,000 volts off of the secondary posts (plug-wire terminals). The only advantage to the MSD coil is that itis less stressful onthe ignitors in the PCM, and has less resistance in the pack itself... but 03 is right, it DOES NOT send more power through the wires or to the plugs, actually slightly less.
There is a bit of current in that voltage, but that is not the point behind spark plugs. You can have 1,000,000 amps of current on-hand, but if you're carrying it through a conductor at 1 volt, you'll never get a spark to jump the gap between a mosquito's *********. Voltage is the key to creating an efficient spark. Generally speaking, the higher the voltage, the stronger the spark and longer in length you can make the spark become.
As far as plug wires, they should be about 8000 ohms per total foot for our ignition coils and plugs. This resistance cuts down on some of the current load and retains the voltage within the insulation of the plug wires. Without this resistance, plugs would burn out too quickly, and more importantly you'd run the risk of arcing inside of your coilpack itself between the primary and secondary windings... and if that happens, kiss your coilpack goodbye.
Geez will you guys knock it off already? I used to build the damn coil packs in our cars in the factory in Dundee, MI (Diamond Electric)... right down the street from the new World Engine plant.
The stock coilpack in our cars will produce up to 44,000 volts off of the secondary posts (plug-wire terminals). The only advantage to the MSD coil is that itis less stressful onthe ignitors in the PCM, and has less resistance in the pack itself... but 03 is right, it DOES NOT send more power through the wires or to the plugs, actually slightly less.
There is a bit of current in that voltage, but that is not the point behind spark plugs. You can have 1,000,000 amps of current on-hand, but if you're carrying it through a conductor at 1 volt, you'll never get a spark to jump the gap between a mosquito's *********. Voltage is the key to creating an efficient spark. Generally speaking, the higher the voltage, the stronger the spark and longer in length you can make the spark become.
As far as plug wires, they should be about 8000 ohms per total foot for our ignition coils and plugs. This resistance cuts down on some of the current load and retains the voltage within the insulation of the plug wires. Without this resistance, plugs would burn out too quickly, and more importantly you'd run the risk of arcing inside of your coilpack itself between the primary and secondary windings... and if that happens, kiss your coilpack goodbye.
Joined: Oct 2004
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RE: inexpensive upgrades
By far my custom srt exhaust on my sxt is not useless to me does wanders for her in shows they love my custom exhaust and is ok if you have the right mods to help it out for performance wise also. Im so sick of some of you putting down the srt exhaust on a sxt or r/t or es or 1st gen . They are the most popular exhaust on neons that arent srt4s these days just not on here.