I like mine...
I can't tell you how much more power I got from them because it took too long for my PCM to relearn everything after I reconnected the battery. I can tell you this, they make the truck sound much more agressive than it did with the stock manifolds. The truck definitely has more power throughout but it is hard to tell how much since for the first tankful after resetting PCM, it is soooo moody. Start it and drive 10 miles and runs and sounds like a beast! Shut it off, go again in an hour, and it drives like it has a 4 cylinder in it and the exhaust sound is much softer. Next drive after that, performance and sound somewhere in between. After the tankful (300 miles) it seems to have evened out more and sounds and drives much better. I wouldn't hesitate to buy them again. I will post my results in about a week from now after I have installed my SCT tuner programs. I hate it when the battery gets disconnected and the PCM has to relearn everything I have changed on that truck!!! After I get the tuner, relearning will start from the perfomance setting that was designed for the mods it has, and not from the factory granny setting. I can hardly wait...

 

Well I'm gonna go ahead and tell you I don't agree. Shorties have there place just like long tubes and its not just due to fitment. He advocates shorties to people that don't intend to get crazy with the modding. I love my Pacesetter long tubes but they just arn't for everybody.

I don't get it. I'm trying tosay that shorties are good for limited mods and your agreeing that shorties are a retarded idea but at the same time stating that you need more mods to utilize your longtubes? I'm confused, please explain.

I'm just gonna come out and say that I'm not attacking either one of you, I'm debating, and questioning.

 

To me, I got longtubes because I am crazy, and I plan to keep making the truck crazy, so they make sense. Even with my truck relatively stock and with an oversized exhaust system, the truck still is running up to par. To me, if I ran longtubes with a small exhaust system, gains would probably be even better. So to me, if your going to get headers, get longtubes. If you dont want longtubes, it probably means you arent heavy into modding and shouldnt bother with getting shorties. If you are heavy into modding and you have shorties, then your minimizing/restricting potential power with them. But as I said, even with my truck with longtubes and no engine work done at the moment, the truck still gained h/p and only lost a little bit of torque...big deal.

 

Well, i've been reading tech articles, talking to Mopar race engine builders, and watching header threads over the last 2-3 years, since about the time I bought my Edelbrock shorties. I would say that about 95% of the negative things I have heard about Pacesetter had to do with the quality of the header, not the person installing or the install itself. Things like warped flange surfaces, poor welds, dimpled pipes, misalignments, innappropriate tube lengths, etc... This goes same for the Summit brand headers of a few years back that were being made by Pacesetter at the time. I was also told by a guy who knows a lot about Mopar performance that the Pacesetter longtube looked to him like it was designed more for the purpose of fitment into our trucks then for performance. Basically, the hypothosis is that Pacesetter recognized that there was a market segment of 2nd Gen Ram 4x4 owners that were looking for longtubes. Since none were currently on the market due to difficulty fitting on our trucks, they came out with something that would fit so they would have this market to themselves. Whether it performed well or not was not a concern, they would be the only ones on the market with longtubes for our trucks. I can't validate the accuracy of any of these comments, just what I have read or been told.

Quite honestly, I don't hardly recall anyone ever posting any good comments about Pacesetter headers either, like you very often see about Gibson headers for example. But this could just mean that those who don't have problems with their Pacesetter headers maybe just never post anything good about them.

I've never tried a set myself, but from everything i've read about them, I wouldn't ever buy any to find out. The Mopar Performance/PPH/Mike Leach/Doug Thorley header went though a lot of engineering, and are considered by a lot of the racing guys as one of the best designed headers for Magnum engines. I passed on them because I wanted ceramic coating and a price under $400. I've been very happy with the quality of the Edelbrock shrties I have, but can't really say if there are headers out there that might perform better. The mid length headers from GSMotorsports are also considered to be a very well engineered header, but they are pricey.

 

Can't remember if this article has been posted around here before, but here it is again. Good read.

Let's get Technical!
by Tony Garisto, Owner of Sanderson Headers

It's no secret that a good set of headers is one of your best performance investments. In fact, most engine builders say headers are
one of the first things you should change when you start modifying your
motor. But before you plunk down your cash, remember that a couple of factors
determine what's going to work best for your particular application.

First thing to consider is the intended use of your car. Are you
building a daily driver, a sometimes bracket racer, or a dedicated
quarter miler? The RPM range where you want the most torque, along with the
displacement of the engine plus any other serious modifications (cam,
blower, heads, etc.) are important factors. Stock manifolds are mass
produced and are designed to clear all the accessories offered for any
vehicle the block may go into. So naturally, performance is compromised
by manufacturing requirements. Tubular headers are built for power and
their design can be very specific. Let's look at how headers work, and clear
up a couple of common misconceptions. First is the size of the primary
tubes. it's easy to assume the bigger the tube the better, but that's not the
case. Fact is, primaries that are too large actually cost you torque and
horsepower by slowing down the rate at which the exhaust travels
through the system. Think of your engine as an air pump. Every time the exhaust
leaves the combustion chamber, it's being forced into the primary tube for that
cylinder. Smaller diameter pipes flow less volume than large ones, but the
exhaust in the smaller pipe flows faster. Until you reach the RPM where
the sheer volume of exhaust gases require bigger primaries, smaller tubes
scavenge far more efficiently. If you're using the engine in the
1,500-3,500 RPM range, which is typical for a street driven car, you definitely
want 1- 1/2" to 1-5/8" primary tubes for a small block and 1-3/4" to 1-7/8" for
a big block. Any bigger and you'll lose plenty of low end torque. Beyond
3,500 RPM it's a question of where you want the power peaks. As you can see
from the charts below, small tubes don't lose their edge in horsepower or
torque until you get above 5,500 RPM.

Even if you're running a radical cam and blower, you're better
off sizing your headers smaller rather than larger, unless you plan to do
most of your driving at full throttle. The headers we build are sized
correctly for even the most heavily modified street motors.

 

maybe silver better start proof reading better.. i have pacesetters no issue , but again im not building a race engine...

 

Well, I said it was that way for the majority of stuff i've read/seen/been told. Your experience with Pacesetters is the minority from what i've seen over the years. I beleive you though. I'm definetly not saying every single header they make is junk. Just saying what I have seen most around here over the years.

 

Yeah right !!!! lol...Reason why i went cheap to see how the truck would react to the headers but over the summer im upgrading ..

 

well im gonna go ahead and say the same thing about you as your venerable mechanic...

Im not attacking you. Im just stating what your oppinions and state of mind are. 20DodgeNeon00 doesnt really know what hes talking about (no offence intended) Anytime you put longtubes on anything you make more power than shorties over a broader range. The idea that shorties are good came from ricers and people that dont know what they are doing (most mustang owners and f body owners) Everyone just follows what they heard from someone else. THAT IS THE WRONG WAY TO LEARN. Research untill your sick of learning, and then do that 10 more times untill you have a definate answer. Granted it is helpful to have someones oppinion who is more experienced, but experience must be taken with a grain of salt. There are some people that are fit to give advice and MOST that arent. Forums are a great example. It gives any hoolagin with a keyboard the abilityto pretend he knows what hes talking about, and because people dont know anything they listen, which just creates 2 people that dont know what they are talking about giving advice, and so on so on so on. Im not saying your mechanic is a forum junkie but he damn well gives advice like one. Same goes for mechanics. It seems that they give certifications to anyone that bought a wrench. I have absolutely 0 training from anyplace that would certify me in anything, but I can wrench circles arround a vast majority of so called mechanics. Just because someones business does this or that to cars of a "high performance" nature doesnt give him any more/less credit. As my favorite quote from the movie Gettysburg says, "Take men one at a time."

Back to my point of researching. I have a general rule of thumb for the work I do to my stuff. I do about 10-20 hours of research for every hour of predicted work. Take a guess at how long I spent looking over **** for my swap. That may sound way excessive, but it works for me. For me time is much less valuable than money, so I spend my time doing something thats going to save me money.

 

Here's another intersting article. Shows an example of were shorties actually produced more hp and torque then long tubes.

http://www.mustang50magazine.com/tec...est/index.html