End-all Be-all plenum thread
Amateur
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 36
Likes: 1
From: USA
Hey all, Just got done wrapping up my Kegger Mod/Plenum Repair. Still ironing out one minor issue but all in all a not a terribly difficult install but it is relatively time consuming. Saved all of my reciepts and took some pictures, although this thread is pretty extensive if anyone is interested in a cost analysis and another walkthrough from a novice's perspective, let me know and ill knock out a write up tonight.
Long story short, had a lot of fun doing this work by myself and is not extremely demanding it just takes quite a bit of time. If you are a novice in terms of your skills, dont be discouraged by this one because its not as bad as it looks, just take your time and invite a friend or two to help and it is not all that hard.
Long story short, had a lot of fun doing this work by myself and is not extremely demanding it just takes quite a bit of time. If you are a novice in terms of your skills, dont be discouraged by this one because its not as bad as it looks, just take your time and invite a friend or two to help and it is not all that hard.
Veteran
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 408
Likes: 0
I do have some pinging at 2500 rpm, but only sometimes.. it seems random
according to the writeup it says a bad PCV valve can cause the same symptoms. I have no oil pools in the intake, i have a shiny surface all over everything but its clear and just a coating . It just smells like fuel but my guess since fuel evaporates then is it is an oil coating, i have a few specs of carbon directly under the throttlebody on the pan but not on the rest of the pan. Basicly from the pictures i have seen of peoples intakes my pan looks clean enough to eat off almost.. I did notice tho that number 7 and 8 spark plugs look a little dirty compared to the rest. Im not sure why, the nodes,arch and ceramic part of the plugs look clean as a whistle but the ring around them has some sort of black stuff on it. The other plugs dont have that. My valve covers are leaking down in the back on each side however.. it might be that
Also when i looked in at the pistons when i took my plugs off they are really nasty. They all look black, the spark gaps were way off, one was almost .50 the rest were all around .45-.50. Stock is suppose to be .40 so i set them correctly
Here are pics of my plugs and the pan.. What do you think ? Btw the pic of the pan is the best i could get.. Those specs of carbon is what i see under the throttlebody but the back and front of the pan look spotless just about.
Here is number 8 spark plug
http://s1083.photobucket.com/albums/...t=IMAG0164.jpg
Number 7
http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/...2/IMAG0163.jpg
and this is what the rest look like
http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/...2/IMAG0070.jpg
This is the intake pan, see the film it has ? Its just specs of carbon and its shiny but i dont see any oil buildup the picture it looks dirty but thats the lighting, in person it looks better
http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/...HPIM1749-1.jpg
I have fresh oil coming from the breather valve on the valve cover, but the PCV valve on the other cover is dry.. Does this mean my PCV valves are bad ?
What are the 2 plugs exactly called. ? One goes to the intake manifold, the other goes from the airbox to the valve cover.
according to the writeup it says a bad PCV valve can cause the same symptoms. I have no oil pools in the intake, i have a shiny surface all over everything but its clear and just a coating . It just smells like fuel but my guess since fuel evaporates then is it is an oil coating, i have a few specs of carbon directly under the throttlebody on the pan but not on the rest of the pan. Basicly from the pictures i have seen of peoples intakes my pan looks clean enough to eat off almost.. I did notice tho that number 7 and 8 spark plugs look a little dirty compared to the rest. Im not sure why, the nodes,arch and ceramic part of the plugs look clean as a whistle but the ring around them has some sort of black stuff on it. The other plugs dont have that. My valve covers are leaking down in the back on each side however.. it might be that
Also when i looked in at the pistons when i took my plugs off they are really nasty. They all look black, the spark gaps were way off, one was almost .50 the rest were all around .45-.50. Stock is suppose to be .40 so i set them correctly
Here are pics of my plugs and the pan.. What do you think ? Btw the pic of the pan is the best i could get.. Those specs of carbon is what i see under the throttlebody but the back and front of the pan look spotless just about.
Here is number 8 spark plug
http://s1083.photobucket.com/albums/...t=IMAG0164.jpg
Number 7
http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/...2/IMAG0163.jpg
and this is what the rest look like
http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/...2/IMAG0070.jpg
This is the intake pan, see the film it has ? Its just specs of carbon and its shiny but i dont see any oil buildup the picture it looks dirty but thats the lighting, in person it looks better
http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/...HPIM1749-1.jpg
I have fresh oil coming from the breather valve on the valve cover, but the PCV valve on the other cover is dry.. Does this mean my PCV valves are bad ?
What are the 2 plugs exactly called. ? One goes to the intake manifold, the other goes from the airbox to the valve cover.
Administrator
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 87,398
Likes: 4,213
From: Clayton MI
One is the PCV valve, the other on the newer trucks is just a plastic elbow. Earlier models had the breather-lookin' feller, with the fat hose fitting. No idea what the technical term for it is...... You could replace it with just an elbow, no biggie.
If it is blowing oil out around the breather side though, yeah, I would replace the PCV valve. You can get new grommets from the parts store as well fairly cheap. The originals are probably hard as rocks by now.
Plugs have a bit of ash deposits, probably from burning oil. If your plenum is blown, it really isn't that bad yet. Get a small mirror, pull the throttle body, and take a look in the back corners of the manifold, if you see oil pooling there, plenum is indeed blow. Rest of your plugs look ok.
To clean the pistons, run some SeaFoam thru the engine. (feed it in thru a vacuum line.)
If it is blowing oil out around the breather side though, yeah, I would replace the PCV valve. You can get new grommets from the parts store as well fairly cheap. The originals are probably hard as rocks by now.
Plugs have a bit of ash deposits, probably from burning oil. If your plenum is blown, it really isn't that bad yet. Get a small mirror, pull the throttle body, and take a look in the back corners of the manifold, if you see oil pooling there, plenum is indeed blow. Rest of your plugs look ok.
To clean the pistons, run some SeaFoam thru the engine. (feed it in thru a vacuum line.)
Amateur
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 36
Likes: 1
From: USA
p { margin-bottom: 0.08in; }a:link { } Alright as requested- A Novice wrench turners perspective on doing the Kegger mod and Plenum repair. I spent about a week researching on this site about doing this and pulled 90% of my info from this site. Im not very experienced when it comes to stuff like this but I enjoy doing it and wanted a bit of a challenge. If I state stuff that is already mentioned in this thread I apologize ill do my best not to restate things that have already been mentioned and focus on different stuff I did. Remember this is just A WAY to do this and you can do this many different ways, using a variety of parts and tools, this is just the method that i used.
KEGGER MOD
First thing i did was went to a local junkyard and talked to the yard boss about an intake. I have a 2000 so any 1998 or later intake will fit. If you have a 97 or sooner, make sure you dont get a 98 or older intake due to the EGR and coolant temp sensors. There were literally dozens of 2nd gen rams in the junk yard i went to so finding one was not an issue. The intake cost me 40 bucks and the guy even cleaned it up for me (a little). So i took the intake home, took the old plate off of the bottom and took all of the sensors and other assorted crap off of it. First thing is resurfacing the gasket surfaces. I used a scraper on the manifold until i got most of the old gasket off, then used a flat file to take it down to the aluminum. (If you choose to use this method be sure to use very little pressure on the file and let it rest flush to the manifold to make sure you dont gouge the gasket surface). I did the same on the thermostat housing surface and throttle body surface. I then used purple power degreaser and a power washer to get all of the old oil and carbon and over a decades worth of crap off of the inside an outside of the intake. Let the degreaser do the work and allow it to soak for a few minutes in between washes with the power washer. Be sure to soak the inside of the runners thoroughly because although you cant see it, there is more than likely ALOT of carbon/oil build up in those runners. I used a narrow scrub brush to reach inside the runners and just kept soaking and scrubbing and rinsing until the water came out clean. Then i started cutting. After reading several online how-tos that suggested using sawzalls, dremels, files and drills; i just decided to jump in with a die-grinder and hack away. First thing i did though was mark the runners with a sharpie. Its really up to you how much you want to take off based off of the modifications and size of the motor you have. When you look at the intake prior to cutting, all of the runners are uniform length, so i figured after all of the cutting they should still be uniform length so i had to take about an inch off of the middle runners and a half inch off of the outer runners. Cutting with a dye grinder can be difficult but i have used them quite a bit in the past so i felt comfortable enough to do all of the cutting with a die-grinder. My suggestion to you is to use what you are comfortable with and what you have available. All of the tools listed above will work just fine. The aluminum cuts fairly easy with the die grinder, just be careful not to hit any surfaces where gaskets will be mounted. The size of the wheel can make things a bit tricky but i was able to move the manifold around to make the right angles to get the cuts, and if i couldnt cut it, i just ground it down until it was the at the line i drew. It took me about an hour to do all of the cutting and grinding. The edges were pretty rough and jagged so i switched to a small right angle grinder and fitted it with a 3M abrasive pad and went to work on the runners. After about 30 minutes of grinding with the pad the runner edges were smooth and polished and all imperfections were gone. Then i washed the intake again with the pressure washer and more degreaser. My advice to anyone doing this be sure to not used just air to blow out all of the aluminum powder and shavings because air wont cut it when it comes to getting all of the remnants out of the intake, and you wouldnt want that crap getting sucked into your engine. I then taped off and painted the intake with hi-temp paint and it came out looking brand new and factory fresh. Next step was to install the hughes plate, simple task here just follow the included instructions. I purchased a new IAT, and coolant temp sensor, 180* thermostat, and thermostat housing and installed it all on the "new" manifold. With the manifold ready to go it was time to start the tear down.
Intake after cutting and masking: http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL70.../399676084.jpg
http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL70.../399676085.jpg
Intake runners close up:
http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL70.../399676073.jpg
After paint:
http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL70.../399676087.jpg
KEGGER MOD
First thing i did was went to a local junkyard and talked to the yard boss about an intake. I have a 2000 so any 1998 or later intake will fit. If you have a 97 or sooner, make sure you dont get a 98 or older intake due to the EGR and coolant temp sensors. There were literally dozens of 2nd gen rams in the junk yard i went to so finding one was not an issue. The intake cost me 40 bucks and the guy even cleaned it up for me (a little). So i took the intake home, took the old plate off of the bottom and took all of the sensors and other assorted crap off of it. First thing is resurfacing the gasket surfaces. I used a scraper on the manifold until i got most of the old gasket off, then used a flat file to take it down to the aluminum. (If you choose to use this method be sure to use very little pressure on the file and let it rest flush to the manifold to make sure you dont gouge the gasket surface). I did the same on the thermostat housing surface and throttle body surface. I then used purple power degreaser and a power washer to get all of the old oil and carbon and over a decades worth of crap off of the inside an outside of the intake. Let the degreaser do the work and allow it to soak for a few minutes in between washes with the power washer. Be sure to soak the inside of the runners thoroughly because although you cant see it, there is more than likely ALOT of carbon/oil build up in those runners. I used a narrow scrub brush to reach inside the runners and just kept soaking and scrubbing and rinsing until the water came out clean. Then i started cutting. After reading several online how-tos that suggested using sawzalls, dremels, files and drills; i just decided to jump in with a die-grinder and hack away. First thing i did though was mark the runners with a sharpie. Its really up to you how much you want to take off based off of the modifications and size of the motor you have. When you look at the intake prior to cutting, all of the runners are uniform length, so i figured after all of the cutting they should still be uniform length so i had to take about an inch off of the middle runners and a half inch off of the outer runners. Cutting with a dye grinder can be difficult but i have used them quite a bit in the past so i felt comfortable enough to do all of the cutting with a die-grinder. My suggestion to you is to use what you are comfortable with and what you have available. All of the tools listed above will work just fine. The aluminum cuts fairly easy with the die grinder, just be careful not to hit any surfaces where gaskets will be mounted. The size of the wheel can make things a bit tricky but i was able to move the manifold around to make the right angles to get the cuts, and if i couldnt cut it, i just ground it down until it was the at the line i drew. It took me about an hour to do all of the cutting and grinding. The edges were pretty rough and jagged so i switched to a small right angle grinder and fitted it with a 3M abrasive pad and went to work on the runners. After about 30 minutes of grinding with the pad the runner edges were smooth and polished and all imperfections were gone. Then i washed the intake again with the pressure washer and more degreaser. My advice to anyone doing this be sure to not used just air to blow out all of the aluminum powder and shavings because air wont cut it when it comes to getting all of the remnants out of the intake, and you wouldnt want that crap getting sucked into your engine. I then taped off and painted the intake with hi-temp paint and it came out looking brand new and factory fresh. Next step was to install the hughes plate, simple task here just follow the included instructions. I purchased a new IAT, and coolant temp sensor, 180* thermostat, and thermostat housing and installed it all on the "new" manifold. With the manifold ready to go it was time to start the tear down.
Intake after cutting and masking: http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL70.../399676084.jpg
http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL70.../399676085.jpg
Intake runners close up:
http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL70.../399676073.jpg
After paint:
http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL70.../399676087.jpg
Amateur
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 36
Likes: 1
From: USA
p { margin-bottom: 0.08in; } TEAR DOWN
Tear down is simple, but i was well aware that if i took the time to label everything i knew that the re-assembly would go ALOT smoother. So thats my advice to everyone out there, as you are taking the intake apart bust out the masking tape, sandwich baggies and sharpie pens and label everything! It will save you guess work at the end. So parts i removed (in relative sequence): Clutch fan and belt, fan shroud, A/C compressor, Alternator, Drain coolant, Upper Rad. hose, accessory brackets. Then i had plenty of room to stand in the engine bay with my feet on the ground. Next parts to come off were the air cleaner, throttle body, all of the injector connections and manifold sensor connections (LABEL EVERYTHING!), disconnect fuel line(special disconnect tool is needed for this) bypass hose and heater return hose and unbolt intake. Before you remove the intake take a shop vac and vacuum up all the crap that has accumulated in between the valve covers and manifold, this will help cut down on the amount of stuff that falls into the lifter valley when you lift it up and remove it. On the driver side there is a small notch that you can fit a pry bar to break the intake free from the heads, just be a little careful, it is an aluminum intake. I chose to remove the intake with the injectors and fuel rails attached. With the intake out, now is the best chance you'll probably ever get to easily change your distributor, cap and rotor, so unless you know that it is good, i would recommend changing all of the hardware out for fresh stuff. Cap and Rotor are pretty cut and dry and I wont go deep into the process of changing your distributor but if you do this BE CAREFUL!( send me a message if you want a HOW TO for distributor removal and reinstallation).
Old Intake Nastiness:
http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL70.../399676097.jpg
Tear Down complete:
http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL70.../399676102.jpg
REASSEMBLY
Ok back to the old manifold, i then took off the fuel rails and injectors and transplanted them onto the new manifold. Use new O-rings for the injectors! (two orings per injector, one on top one on bottom for a total of 16). Resurface the intake surface on the head just make sure you plug up the intake runners on the head so nothing gets in there and wrecks havoc when you fire it back up. Place the new manifold gaskets in the retaining clips on the heads. When you place the new manifold back onto the make sure to line it up as straight as possible. If you dont line it up correctly, no big deal just lift it back up reposition the gaskets and try again. Dont wiggle the manifold into place or else the gaskets will slide around and you then run the risk of the gaskets leaking. Re installation is pretty cut and dry just follow the tourque specs provided with the Hughes kit, oh and make sure you use new intake bolts and dont reuse the old ones. My old ones came out looking like crap anyway so i just tossed them in the garbage when i removed them. Reinstall was a piece of cake with everything labeled and i reinstalled everything in about an hour.
PROBLEMS ENCOUNTERED
Ok quick rundown of problems I ran into:
-Cutting wheel while using die grinder can be too big at times to make shallow angle cuts in confined spaces, just had to grind down and take my time until the wheel was small enough to get into those areas.
-Distributor cap bolt broke off in the distributor forcing me to replace the whole distributor instead of just the cap and rotor.
-MASSIVE amounts of sludge in the lifter valley, I couldnt just bolt it back up that way so I scraped and wiped as much crap outta there as I could.
You can get by with your standard tool set, but there were two tools that I did not own that are required for this job that not everyone who tinkers on the weekends might own.
UNCOMMON TOOLS REQUIRED:
-IN/LB Torque wrench (I have a FT/LBS but not an IN/LBS)
-Fuel fitting disconnect tool
TIPS AND ADVICE:
-Bust out the Vasoline and Di-electric grease.......uhhh no seriously bust this stuff out and apply it to all of you connections. Di-electric grease for all 8000 connections and Vasoline for your hoses so they slide on a lot easier during re-assembly.
-BRING A FRIEND! I soloed this one but it would have gone a lot faster if I had someone there with an extra set of hands to hold stuff and find tools and parts for me while I was standing waist deep in the engine bay. I got a bit of a workout just jumping in and out of the engine bay at least 200 times over the duration of this project. So bring your friend, your kid, your wife, or even a dog who is good at fetch to help you on this one and it will save you some time in the long run.
-TAKE YOUR TIME!! Lots of stuff coming off in this project so if its your daily driver, make sure you can go without it for a few days if a problem comes up during the process.
-BUY USED! Buy a used intake and prep it all, THEN start the tear down, this will save you hours if you can afford to do it.
Well now that I have written a freaking book, let me know if there is anything you want me to go into deeper or provide more pictures of. The pictures on here are from my phone, but I have more on my camera I just haven't downloaded them yet. Good luck to anyone jumping in to this one, and send me a PM if you need any more advice. Cost analysis for this project will be my next write up tomorrow after I get home from work. Cheers.
Tear down is simple, but i was well aware that if i took the time to label everything i knew that the re-assembly would go ALOT smoother. So thats my advice to everyone out there, as you are taking the intake apart bust out the masking tape, sandwich baggies and sharpie pens and label everything! It will save you guess work at the end. So parts i removed (in relative sequence): Clutch fan and belt, fan shroud, A/C compressor, Alternator, Drain coolant, Upper Rad. hose, accessory brackets. Then i had plenty of room to stand in the engine bay with my feet on the ground. Next parts to come off were the air cleaner, throttle body, all of the injector connections and manifold sensor connections (LABEL EVERYTHING!), disconnect fuel line(special disconnect tool is needed for this) bypass hose and heater return hose and unbolt intake. Before you remove the intake take a shop vac and vacuum up all the crap that has accumulated in between the valve covers and manifold, this will help cut down on the amount of stuff that falls into the lifter valley when you lift it up and remove it. On the driver side there is a small notch that you can fit a pry bar to break the intake free from the heads, just be a little careful, it is an aluminum intake. I chose to remove the intake with the injectors and fuel rails attached. With the intake out, now is the best chance you'll probably ever get to easily change your distributor, cap and rotor, so unless you know that it is good, i would recommend changing all of the hardware out for fresh stuff. Cap and Rotor are pretty cut and dry and I wont go deep into the process of changing your distributor but if you do this BE CAREFUL!( send me a message if you want a HOW TO for distributor removal and reinstallation).
Old Intake Nastiness:
http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL70.../399676097.jpg
Tear Down complete:
http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL70.../399676102.jpg
REASSEMBLY
Ok back to the old manifold, i then took off the fuel rails and injectors and transplanted them onto the new manifold. Use new O-rings for the injectors! (two orings per injector, one on top one on bottom for a total of 16). Resurface the intake surface on the head just make sure you plug up the intake runners on the head so nothing gets in there and wrecks havoc when you fire it back up. Place the new manifold gaskets in the retaining clips on the heads. When you place the new manifold back onto the make sure to line it up as straight as possible. If you dont line it up correctly, no big deal just lift it back up reposition the gaskets and try again. Dont wiggle the manifold into place or else the gaskets will slide around and you then run the risk of the gaskets leaking. Re installation is pretty cut and dry just follow the tourque specs provided with the Hughes kit, oh and make sure you use new intake bolts and dont reuse the old ones. My old ones came out looking like crap anyway so i just tossed them in the garbage when i removed them. Reinstall was a piece of cake with everything labeled and i reinstalled everything in about an hour.
PROBLEMS ENCOUNTERED
Ok quick rundown of problems I ran into:
-Cutting wheel while using die grinder can be too big at times to make shallow angle cuts in confined spaces, just had to grind down and take my time until the wheel was small enough to get into those areas.
-Distributor cap bolt broke off in the distributor forcing me to replace the whole distributor instead of just the cap and rotor.
-MASSIVE amounts of sludge in the lifter valley, I couldnt just bolt it back up that way so I scraped and wiped as much crap outta there as I could.
You can get by with your standard tool set, but there were two tools that I did not own that are required for this job that not everyone who tinkers on the weekends might own.
UNCOMMON TOOLS REQUIRED:
-IN/LB Torque wrench (I have a FT/LBS but not an IN/LBS)
-Fuel fitting disconnect tool
TIPS AND ADVICE:
-Bust out the Vasoline and Di-electric grease.......uhhh no seriously bust this stuff out and apply it to all of you connections. Di-electric grease for all 8000 connections and Vasoline for your hoses so they slide on a lot easier during re-assembly.
-BRING A FRIEND! I soloed this one but it would have gone a lot faster if I had someone there with an extra set of hands to hold stuff and find tools and parts for me while I was standing waist deep in the engine bay. I got a bit of a workout just jumping in and out of the engine bay at least 200 times over the duration of this project. So bring your friend, your kid, your wife, or even a dog who is good at fetch to help you on this one and it will save you some time in the long run.
-TAKE YOUR TIME!! Lots of stuff coming off in this project so if its your daily driver, make sure you can go without it for a few days if a problem comes up during the process.
-BUY USED! Buy a used intake and prep it all, THEN start the tear down, this will save you hours if you can afford to do it.
Well now that I have written a freaking book, let me know if there is anything you want me to go into deeper or provide more pictures of. The pictures on here are from my phone, but I have more on my camera I just haven't downloaded them yet. Good luck to anyone jumping in to this one, and send me a PM if you need any more advice. Cost analysis for this project will be my next write up tomorrow after I get home from work. Cheers.
Administrator
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 87,398
Likes: 4,213
From: Clayton MI
Only if they need it. Cleaning them out while you have them off sure wouldn't hurt.
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Intake
Link for the F1 Airgap one piece alluminum conversion.
http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/p...p?partid=24773
Chrylser TSB for testing for a blown plenum. Easy way to test.
http://dodgeram.info/tsb/2000/09-05-00.htm
http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/p...p?partid=24773
Chrylser TSB for testing for a blown plenum. Easy way to test.
http://dodgeram.info/tsb/2000/09-05-00.htm
