3.9 --> 5.9 swap
#41
02-11-2012, 01:47 PM
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#42
02-11-2012, 09:43 PM
Parkin,
As for cams, I would go with something similar to this build. It has been something I want to do. As you are doing this the RIGHT way, I would recommend an RV type cam:
http://www.bionicdodge.com/bionic/in...p?topic=9197.0
^^ Basically you can get close to hemi HP and a LOT more torque. If you want that cam, you can email billyW and he will send you the specs to send to Comp.
OR
YOu can get a VERY similar cam from Rich (also a member of the other forum):
http://stores.hi-potek.com/-strse-13...ter/Detail.bok
The lift on that cams is only .480 (like BollyWs cam) so it is not a strain on the valvetrain. I know it says 5.2 cam factory replacement, but 5.2 cams have more lift than a 5.9 cam. And .480 is higher than factory for both cams. It is not a factory replacement, but in terms of emissions, it is similar.
With a cam like that you won't need 1.7 roller rockers but you can use them to get a small bump. BUT, if I were you, I would PM Merc225HP for his cam specs. He basically ordered a camshaft that would be around .480 WITH 1.7 roller rockers.
With a camshaft, you will want roller rockers.
So, if you are doing a cam, i would get these parts:
1. Camshaft (200-206 duration and .480/.480 lift). 342 bucks.
2. Recommended pushrods (get length from the cam supplier, you will probably need hardened ones). 100-150 bucks I think.
3. New lifters. I would get Rhoades lifters as they are the best/most reliable. 200 bucks I think.
4. Timing chain and tensioner. Hughes has a good chain that is cryogenically hardened. They also sell a tensioner, which is not stock on our trucks, and is an upgrade. 67ish for the chain and I think 45 for the tensioner.
5. Roller rockers: 1.6 or 1.7. 364 and 344 respectively. Depends on the cam.
5. You will need a SCT with custom tuning. 365 bucks from hemivefertuning.com
If you go 1.7 instead of a cam you will be very happy. BUT, if you want to do more, you will be killing yourself for not doing a cam while the engine is OUT.
I would just get the odessa/clearwater heads and a cam from hipotek (Along with the pushrods since he knows how long they should be, and roller rockers). Rich also sells Mopar Performance roller lifters for 129 bucks if you want to get factory replacements. Which would not be bad since you are not doing a racing application. He does not sell the clearwater heads, but he does sell the RHS heads for 1200 per set of two (assembled). They have beefier springs...and everything else.
Just make sure that you get the cam and pushrods from the same guy...who also knows dodges.
As for cams, I would go with something similar to this build. It has been something I want to do. As you are doing this the RIGHT way, I would recommend an RV type cam:
http://www.bionicdodge.com/bionic/in...p?topic=9197.0
^^ Basically you can get close to hemi HP and a LOT more torque. If you want that cam, you can email billyW and he will send you the specs to send to Comp.
OR
YOu can get a VERY similar cam from Rich (also a member of the other forum):
http://stores.hi-potek.com/-strse-13...ter/Detail.bok
The lift on that cams is only .480 (like BollyWs cam) so it is not a strain on the valvetrain. I know it says 5.2 cam factory replacement, but 5.2 cams have more lift than a 5.9 cam. And .480 is higher than factory for both cams. It is not a factory replacement, but in terms of emissions, it is similar.
With a cam like that you won't need 1.7 roller rockers but you can use them to get a small bump. BUT, if I were you, I would PM Merc225HP for his cam specs. He basically ordered a camshaft that would be around .480 WITH 1.7 roller rockers.
With a camshaft, you will want roller rockers.
So, if you are doing a cam, i would get these parts:
1. Camshaft (200-206 duration and .480/.480 lift). 342 bucks.
2. Recommended pushrods (get length from the cam supplier, you will probably need hardened ones). 100-150 bucks I think.
3. New lifters. I would get Rhoades lifters as they are the best/most reliable. 200 bucks I think.
4. Timing chain and tensioner. Hughes has a good chain that is cryogenically hardened. They also sell a tensioner, which is not stock on our trucks, and is an upgrade. 67ish for the chain and I think 45 for the tensioner.
5. Roller rockers: 1.6 or 1.7. 364 and 344 respectively. Depends on the cam.
5. You will need a SCT with custom tuning. 365 bucks from hemivefertuning.com
If you go 1.7 instead of a cam you will be very happy. BUT, if you want to do more, you will be killing yourself for not doing a cam while the engine is OUT.
I would just get the odessa/clearwater heads and a cam from hipotek (Along with the pushrods since he knows how long they should be, and roller rockers). Rich also sells Mopar Performance roller lifters for 129 bucks if you want to get factory replacements. Which would not be bad since you are not doing a racing application. He does not sell the clearwater heads, but he does sell the RHS heads for 1200 per set of two (assembled). They have beefier springs...and everything else.
Just make sure that you get the cam and pushrods from the same guy...who also knows dodges.
#43
02-11-2012, 10:27 PM
Does anyone know if the oil filter boss on the block is supposed to have a gasket? The machine shop removed it when they did their work and it was just re-installed finger tight. Seems like ti would need something to seal it up but I can't find a diagram in the FSM that shows that part.
You can check the parts manual. If it has one it should be listed there.
#44
02-12-2012, 09:35 AM
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: NC
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Parkin,
As for cams, I would go with something similar to this build. It has been something I want to do. As you are doing this the RIGHT way, I would recommend an RV type cam:
http://www.bionicdodge.com/bionic/in...p?topic=9197.0
^^ Basically you can get close to hemi HP and a LOT more torque. If you want that cam, you can email billyW and he will send you the specs to send to Comp.
OR
YOu can get a VERY similar cam from Rich (also a member of the other forum):
http://stores.hi-potek.com/-strse-13...ter/Detail.bok
The lift on that cams is only .480 (like BollyWs cam) so it is not a strain on the valvetrain. I know it says 5.2 cam factory replacement, but 5.2 cams have more lift than a 5.9 cam. And .480 is higher than factory for both cams. It is not a factory replacement, but in terms of emissions, it is similar.
With a cam like that you won't need 1.7 roller rockers but you can use them to get a small bump. BUT, if I were you, I would PM Merc225HP for his cam specs. He basically ordered a camshaft that would be around .480 WITH 1.7 roller rockers.
With a camshaft, you will want roller rockers.
So, if you are doing a cam, i would get these parts:
1. Camshaft (200-206 duration and .480/.480 lift). 342 bucks.
2. Recommended pushrods (get length from the cam supplier, you will probably need hardened ones). 100-150 bucks I think.
3. New lifters. I would get Rhoades lifters as they are the best/most reliable. 200 bucks I think.
4. Timing chain and tensioner. Hughes has a good chain that is cryogenically hardened. They also sell a tensioner, which is not stock on our trucks, and is an upgrade. 67ish for the chain and I think 45 for the tensioner.
5. Roller rockers: 1.6 or 1.7. 364 and 344 respectively. Depends on the cam.
5. You will need a SCT with custom tuning. 365 bucks from hemivefertuning.com
If you go 1.7 instead of a cam you will be very happy. BUT, if you want to do more, you will be killing yourself for not doing a cam while the engine is OUT.
I would just get the odessa/clearwater heads and a cam from hipotek (Along with the pushrods since he knows how long they should be, and roller rockers). Rich also sells Mopar Performance roller lifters for 129 bucks if you want to get factory replacements. Which would not be bad since you are not doing a racing application. He does not sell the clearwater heads, but he does sell the RHS heads for 1200 per set of two (assembled). They have beefier springs...and everything else.
Just make sure that you get the cam and pushrods from the same guy...who also knows dodges.
As for cams, I would go with something similar to this build. It has been something I want to do. As you are doing this the RIGHT way, I would recommend an RV type cam:
http://www.bionicdodge.com/bionic/in...p?topic=9197.0
^^ Basically you can get close to hemi HP and a LOT more torque. If you want that cam, you can email billyW and he will send you the specs to send to Comp.
OR
YOu can get a VERY similar cam from Rich (also a member of the other forum):
http://stores.hi-potek.com/-strse-13...ter/Detail.bok
The lift on that cams is only .480 (like BollyWs cam) so it is not a strain on the valvetrain. I know it says 5.2 cam factory replacement, but 5.2 cams have more lift than a 5.9 cam. And .480 is higher than factory for both cams. It is not a factory replacement, but in terms of emissions, it is similar.
With a cam like that you won't need 1.7 roller rockers but you can use them to get a small bump. BUT, if I were you, I would PM Merc225HP for his cam specs. He basically ordered a camshaft that would be around .480 WITH 1.7 roller rockers.
With a camshaft, you will want roller rockers.
So, if you are doing a cam, i would get these parts:
1. Camshaft (200-206 duration and .480/.480 lift). 342 bucks.
2. Recommended pushrods (get length from the cam supplier, you will probably need hardened ones). 100-150 bucks I think.
3. New lifters. I would get Rhoades lifters as they are the best/most reliable. 200 bucks I think.
4. Timing chain and tensioner. Hughes has a good chain that is cryogenically hardened. They also sell a tensioner, which is not stock on our trucks, and is an upgrade. 67ish for the chain and I think 45 for the tensioner.
5. Roller rockers: 1.6 or 1.7. 364 and 344 respectively. Depends on the cam.
5. You will need a SCT with custom tuning. 365 bucks from hemivefertuning.com
If you go 1.7 instead of a cam you will be very happy. BUT, if you want to do more, you will be killing yourself for not doing a cam while the engine is OUT.
I would just get the odessa/clearwater heads and a cam from hipotek (Along with the pushrods since he knows how long they should be, and roller rockers). Rich also sells Mopar Performance roller lifters for 129 bucks if you want to get factory replacements. Which would not be bad since you are not doing a racing application. He does not sell the clearwater heads, but he does sell the RHS heads for 1200 per set of two (assembled). They have beefier springs...and everything else.
Just make sure that you get the cam and pushrods from the same guy...who also knows dodges.
Thanks for that info...
I've also read a lot of threads over at Bionic about cams/setups/isuues. I'm thinking at this point, since this is my first real complete build, I may be safer staying with the stock cam and installing the HS 1.7's. It looks like swapping the cam will open yet another can of worms with some aspects that I truly do not totally understand. The more I read about cams, the less confident I feel in getting everything set up correctly. I'm thinking I would rather get a solid good running motor built and installed and maybe make cam plans for the future.
That being said, this project started as a plenum fix on my existing 3.9 and has spiraled out of control ever since
. I think the money it would cost for all of the above mentioned (potential) parts would be better spent at this point by upgrading the 42RE trans and 3.55 gearing. I think I can end up with a better all around build without investing an unrealistic amount of cash.I really wish I could get a simple answer on a drop in cam that didn't require a ton of replacement parts and provides good performance increases. I've talked to Crane and Comp and ended the conversation feeling less confident than I did when I called...mainly because of my need to keep this rig emissions compliant with a clean PCM.
Still planning on going with the EQ Iron Ram heads. Originally I planned on getting the 2.02/1.625 valves. Would there be an advantages/disadvantages on going that route or should I stick with the stock sized valving when I order them?
#45
02-12-2012, 09:42 AM
Larger valve heads are more for a motor that wants to build it's power in the mid to upper RPM range. For a "low end grunt" motor, the smaller valves are actually better, as it maintains velocity of the air charge, for better cylinder filling at lower RPM.
This is all pretty much theoretical though, as I cannot find dyno charts where JUST the valve size changed. (nor did I expect to.....) I have been doing this for quite some time though.... If you want bottom end, stick with the smaller valves. Clearwater/Odessa make the better casting heads with the stock size valves, and I think you can even get them with better valve springs, so should you decide to cam it up later, that's one less thing to deal with.
This is all pretty much theoretical though, as I cannot find dyno charts where JUST the valve size changed. (nor did I expect to.....) I have been doing this for quite some time though....
If you want bottom end, stick with the smaller valves. Clearwater/Odessa make the better casting heads with the stock size valves, and I think you can even get them with better valve springs, so should you decide to cam it up later, that's one less thing to deal with.
#46
02-12-2012, 09:53 AM
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#47
02-12-2012, 09:56 AM
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Larger valve heads are more for a motor that wants to build it's power in the mid to upper RPM range. For a "low end grunt" motor, the smaller valves are actually better, as it maintains velocity of the air charge, for better cylinder filling at lower RPM.
This is all pretty much theoretical though, as I cannot find dyno charts where JUST the valve size changed. (nor did I expect to.....) I have been doing this for quite some time though.... If you want bottom end, stick with the smaller valves. Clearwater/Odessa make the better casting heads with the stock size valves, and I think you can even get them with better valve springs, so should you decide to cam it up later, that's one less thing to deal with.
This is all pretty much theoretical though, as I cannot find dyno charts where JUST the valve size changed. (nor did I expect to.....) I have been doing this for quite some time though....
If you want bottom end, stick with the smaller valves. Clearwater/Odessa make the better casting heads with the stock size valves, and I think you can even get them with better valve springs, so should you decide to cam it up later, that's one less thing to deal with.ok, cool. I remember you mentioned before that you would stick with the stock vave sizing for low end. In reality, that's all that will really matter with this truck anyway. I'm not looking to build tons of power at upper rpms...just not the way I typically roll. I'll talk to the Odessa guys when I order them (hopefully very soon) and see what they recommend as far as springs. Thanks.
#49
02-12-2012, 11:17 AM
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Yeah, I painted the block and timing cover with Duplicolor Engine Enamel. Hemi orange and Cast Aluminum. That stuff is pretty bullet proof if you follow the application instructions and take your time. If you try to rush it, it is a very unforgiving paint. Always had good luck in the past with it.
#50
02-12-2012, 11:36 AM
Champion
Thanks for that info...
I've also read a lot of threads over at Bionic about cams/setups/isuues. I'm thinking at this point, since this is my first real complete build, I may be safer staying with the stock cam and installing the HS 1.7's. It looks like swapping the cam will open yet another can of worms with some aspects that I truly do not totally understand. The more I read about cams, the less confident I feel in getting everything set up correctly. I'm thinking I would rather get a solid good running motor built and installed and maybe make cam plans for the future.
That being said, this project started as a plenum fix on my existing 3.9 and has spiraled out of control ever since. I think the money it would cost for all of the above mentioned (potential) parts would be better spent at this point by upgrading the 42RE trans and 3.55 gearing. I think I can end up with a better all around build without investing an unrealistic amount of cash.
I really wish I could get a simple answer on a drop in cam that didn't require a ton of replacement parts and provides good performance increases. I've talked to Crane and Comp and ended the conversation feeling less confident than I did when I called...mainly because of my need to keep this rig emissions compliant with a clean PCM.
Still planning on going with the EQ Iron Ram heads. Originally I planned on getting the 2.02/1.625 valves. Would there be an advantages/disadvantages on going that route or should I stick with the stock sized valving when I order them?
I've also read a lot of threads over at Bionic about cams/setups/isuues. I'm thinking at this point, since this is my first real complete build, I may be safer staying with the stock cam and installing the HS 1.7's. It looks like swapping the cam will open yet another can of worms with some aspects that I truly do not totally understand. The more I read about cams, the less confident I feel in getting everything set up correctly. I'm thinking I would rather get a solid good running motor built and installed and maybe make cam plans for the future.
That being said, this project started as a plenum fix on my existing 3.9 and has spiraled out of control ever since
. I think the money it would cost for all of the above mentioned (potential) parts would be better spent at this point by upgrading the 42RE trans and 3.55 gearing. I think I can end up with a better all around build without investing an unrealistic amount of cash.I really wish I could get a simple answer on a drop in cam that didn't require a ton of replacement parts and provides good performance increases. I've talked to Crane and Comp and ended the conversation feeling less confident than I did when I called...mainly because of my need to keep this rig emissions compliant with a clean PCM.
Still planning on going with the EQ Iron Ram heads. Originally I planned on getting the 2.02/1.625 valves. Would there be an advantages/disadvantages on going that route or should I stick with the stock sized valving when I order them?
I think you are sitting in a great position right now. You have your engine on the stand and you're NOT on a schedule. Moreover, you have a decent plan and just need some filler information to hone it more. I'd like to provide my experience, which was just done in the last 2 months and I'm extremely happy with it, especially as it will allow for more expansion later.
I can't agree more with you about a healthy transmission and gears though. Maybe get that priced out now, if not already, to see where you sit. Once my tranny goes kerplunk, I'm gonna go the PATC route or a trusted local rebuilder via an associate in my area.
Now, some of your plan/intentions echo where I was sitting. Emissions, stock valvetrain, low end, expansion, etc. I picked up the majority of my mission from Merc225hp. Bunch of other ppl helped chime in such as HeyYou, aim4squirrels, and dhvaughn to name a few. This is to help you with the camshaft aspect.
I wanted a cam that was basically drop in and provided good, mild bump, and could be used with stock valvetrain. Additionally, meet emissions and not need PCM modification. So I still have my stock heads!! My usage is DD and offroading (rocks, trails type).
Here is my thread of progress, where most will not apply to you: https://dodgeforum.com/forum/2nd-gen...ss-w-pics.html
I got a Crane Cam, which was formerly the Mopar R/T Cam. Mopar previously was partnered with Crane. Crane closed and the reopened doors under someone else and Mopar just discontinued the cam and not redo the partnership. I got this info direct from Mopar Performance. My specs were verified with them as well.
Price is higher than the one HeyYou suggested: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CRN-704121/
Now I did get new lifters as that is the minimum thing to get with new camshaft. My purpose was to nail down the cam as that is the ideal thing to do...build around the cam. You would be fine with the Mopar roller lifters for this. Again, this answering your question about drop in cam. Now, you are prepared for new heads and that was play a factor in the lift, which I'm not able to respond to. In this situation though, you are able to stay off the rockers for some time. This would reduce cost and effort. Meaning, I plan to do rocker laters as the install of them is a snap compared to the camshaft. It's alot of work after the engine is placed in the rig. That way you get a baseline of your new V8.
Lastly, you can go a bit cheaper with Mopar Double Roller chain. Tensioner is not necessary buy nice. I got one, but my NEW chain was so tight I could not use the tensioner. A high volume oil pump isn't a significant help to the system. Just saying from my research HV pump is not appreciable, but maybe combined with other things it is and I'm not sure.
Hope that helps and I'm sure I've forgotten some details but I'm excited for you...as my excuse.
****, how will your butt feel from a V6 to V8? hahahhahaMopar parts: http://www.mopartsracing.com/parts/ram.html
Last edited by Wh1t3NuKle; 02-12-2012 at 11:49 AM. Reason: added link for mopar parts