On Yahoo this morning:

Chrysler gets labor deals in fight for survival

Chrysler gets deals with UAW, CAW unions, needs debtholder agreement, Fiat deal to survive


http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Chrysl...1&asset=&ccode=

 

Yes, now the biggest challenge before getting Fiat's blessing, is to have those greedy debt holders forgive some debt. I think they should, after all, it was our tax payer money that bailed those Aholes out for what, around $90 billion not too long ago. The US Treasury is only asking for about 75% of Chrysler debt to be forgiven. Can you believe the counter offers some of these debt holders are throwing back!! It makes me sick. JP Morgan, Citibank, among others do not have a very good memory!! At least the Michigan Governor is stating her resentment towards this.

Gonzo

 

Gonzo,
I hold about $100K in GM bonds. I did not receive any bailout money from the Govt., but now it looks like everyone expects me to "forgive" the debt. Since I am too small to be dealt with individually, I am expected to go along with whatever the large bondholders agree to. So please understand that much of the bond money is individuals money, not large institutions that took bail out money.

 

My understanding was of the large institutions, Citibank, JP Morgan, etc, holding approx 7 billion in Chrysler debt??? These companies are being negotiated with right now to lower/forgive the debt...Do I have this wrong??

Gonzo

 

I can only tell you that the GM equity for debt is going to be 225 shares for every $1K in bonds. WOW, that means I get the stock at only 100% more than you can go buy the stock for right now. The stock is about $2/share, but I get it for over $4/share. Ain't that a hell of a deal, instant 50% loss!

 

There’s a lot of union bashing in here and not much good to say about the working man. I’m a union man myself now in the refining business. I worked at Toyota for 5 years and seen the way they treated their workers. You don’t have a retirement when you work for Toyota just 401k, if that counts for anything. I’ve also seen numbers of temporary’s that were promised jobs let go after working 2 hard years with nothing to show for it except jacked up hands from assembly work. They worked all that time with no benefits and low wages to save the Japanese a buck. As for the comment that Toyota has no union workers that’s not true, look at NUMMI. If it wasn’t for the unions the team members at Toyota would only be making 12 dollars an hour. These companies signed these contracts. They knew what was in them. How about hiring some quality engineers to design a better product like the new ram!

 

mrbrown, you would be amazed how many people 'only' have a 401k. What makes you think that a retirement plan should be offered also? Dream on.

 

Ergo, here we are. The American taxpayer having to bail them out for doing so. I don't think anyone has a problem with the "working man". I would guess that the overwhelming majority of people on this forum have jobs. It is the political bs and palm greasing that goes on with the unions that is the problem. I was in a union for eight years, and couldn't believe the sh*t we asked for. I think that most thought it was unreasonable...
until the lackeys would come in and whip everybody into a frenzy. The man has this- The man does that- fvck the man. Workers should be treated fairly, and compensated fairly based on thier level of education, experience, and/or training. On an individual basis. They shouldn't be compensated based on profit or what somebody else has or is making.

Unions served a nobel cause at one point in history, but we now have child labor laws and a minimum wage. We do not live in a socialistic society. If someone wants more then they should strive to improve themselves, rather than ganging up and extorting it, and, thereby, crippling an industry.

 

well said, we won't even get into health benefits. Some people need a dose of the real world here...

 

mrbrown,
I have been horrified by the union bashing at the two forums that I visit. So many of these people have no idea what a great service the unions did for the working folks in the country. Read your history people. Workplace safety, 40 hour week, livable wages, sick days etc.. Sometimes the union protects workers that should be fired, but they serve a purpose and everyone of us better remember that. I am not part of a union and never have been, but I have seen what employers and corporate america try to do to their employees. Without unions, the quality of life in the workplace suffers and I challenge anyone to argue otherwise.

Spoon, most of the blue collar workers don't have a 401K, they have a pension that they do not control, can not take with them or direct. If your company goes broke so does your pension. If you have a 401K, you can take it with you and unless it was loaded with your company's stock, your retirement will be fine. Don't forget, much of the pension is the employee's money.

The Arlington TX GM plant is about 20 miles from me and several of my patients work there. They don't make $70/hr like the media reports. They make from $17-$28 /hr. It is the legacy costs of health care and underfunded pensions that are hurting GM and Chrysler.