The Official 2nd Gen RAM Forum OT thread
#8391
04-16-2013, 12:36 PM
goes to show that guns are not the problem.
this push for gun control is not going to help at all...
notice how last weeks mass stabbing didn't make it in the national news???
A college student had admitted to fantasizing about stabbing someone to death since he was very young, and he went to school and stabbed 14 people!!!
nobody died and there were no guns involved, so the media didn't give a ****.
14 people stabbed!!! are we going to ban hunting and pocket knives and register kitchen knives with background checks now?!
the issue is not the weapons, its the mentally unstable...
this push for gun control is not going to help at all...
notice how last weeks mass stabbing didn't make it in the national news???
A college student had admitted to fantasizing about stabbing someone to death since he was very young, and he went to school and stabbed 14 people!!!
nobody died and there were no guns involved, so the media didn't give a ****.
14 people stabbed!!! are we going to ban hunting and pocket knives and register kitchen knives with background checks now?!
the issue is not the weapons, its the mentally unstable...
No one died in the stabbing incident, therefore: Not Newsworthy. The dipstick used a boxcutter..... just like some hijackers did. Had he used a REAL knife, it may have been more likely to hit the nationals.
#8392
04-16-2013, 12:54 PM
goes to show that guns are not the problem.
this push for gun control is not going to help at all...
notice how last weeks mass stabbing didn't make it in the national news???
A college student had admitted to fantasizing about stabbing someone to death since he was very young, and he went to school and stabbed 14 people!!!
nobody died and there were no guns involved, so the media didn't give a ****.
14 people stabbed!!! are we going to ban hunting and pocket knives and register kitchen knives with background checks now?!
the issue is not the weapons, its the mentally unstable...
this push for gun control is not going to help at all...
notice how last weeks mass stabbing didn't make it in the national news???
A college student had admitted to fantasizing about stabbing someone to death since he was very young, and he went to school and stabbed 14 people!!!
nobody died and there were no guns involved, so the media didn't give a ****.
14 people stabbed!!! are we going to ban hunting and pocket knives and register kitchen knives with background checks now?!
the issue is not the weapons, its the mentally unstable...
Exactly. Try explaining that to the gun-control crowd though......
No one died in the stabbing incident, therefore: Not Newsworthy. The dipstick used a boxcutter..... just like some hijackers did. Had he used a REAL knife, it may have been more likely to hit the nationals.
No one died in the stabbing incident, therefore: Not Newsworthy. The dipstick used a boxcutter..... just like some hijackers did. Had he used a REAL knife, it may have been more likely to hit the nationals.
I heard and rad about the stabbings, and other acts of violence. The problem is we isolate the "conversation" to the term "gun control" which is so polarizing and ideological. And both sides throw in the "mental illness" thing to make us feel like it can't be "us." But the mentally ill are 98.2% more likely to be victimized that victimizing. No one wants to talk about that part. There is something that appears to be mentally unstable and may be nothing more than mean and evil and hateful. Fantasizing about killing someone is not a diagnosable illness in DSM IV, but we all should be able to agree and be able to identify the difference between right and wrong. And the problem is the tolerance of and glorification of violence in our society. Not that I work in this filed, but I work in this field.....
Taking things to the extreme in conversations is even more polarizing, has no empirical evidence that "if this, then this" exists or is the intent. And as former licensed dealer, I ran background checks and support them. And 92% of the country supports this as well. It will not stop the violence, but that does not mean it is not good policy. We cannot stop bank robberies either, but that is no reason to just stop enforcing the law. (stepping off soap box...)
#8393
04-16-2013, 02:05 PM
I don't have an issue with background checks. Now, if the background checks are used to build a database of gun owners (which is what the dems want) THEN, I have a real issue with it. Long guns, by and large, don't need to be registered. Such a database would effectively change that. We don't really need or want the government to know EXACTLY who has weapons. (though, handguns are indeed registered, and records are kept.... Yeah, I am drawing a thin line. 
)
Trouble with background checks is: There is nothing in there about 'mental health', and if said person is 'a danger to society if armed'... and such like. According to the courts, releasing such information is a violation of the persons rights, and also a violation of doctor/patient privilege. I don't know of to many psychiatrists/psychologists that are going to want to be held responsible for making that call.... Get sued by the patient for violating his rights if you do, get sued by everyone else and their cousin if you don't, and the person goes off on a nut, and kills folks. It is indeed a tough call.
)Trouble with background checks is: There is nothing in there about 'mental health', and if said person is 'a danger to society if armed'... and such like. According to the courts, releasing such information is a violation of the persons rights, and also a violation of doctor/patient privilege. I don't know of to many psychiatrists/psychologists that are going to want to be held responsible for making that call.... Get sued by the patient for violating his rights if you do, get sued by everyone else and their cousin if you don't, and the person goes off on a nut, and kills folks. It is indeed a tough call.
#8394
04-16-2013, 02:13 PM
Banned Goober Smoocher
You know, back in the 50's, there were these things called "mental institutions". Yeah, my grandma worked for one, there were a lot of people that should have stayed there that were being turned out and just put on drugs.
Some people need to be institutionalized.
Some people need to be institutionalized.
#8395
04-16-2013, 02:20 PM
I think we can thank Ronnie Raygun for those going away... or maybe it was even earlier than that...
#8396
04-16-2013, 02:41 PM
I don't have an issue with background checks. Now, if the background checks are used to build a database of gun owners (which is what the dems want) THEN, I have a real issue with it. Long guns, by and large, don't need to be registered. Such a database would effectively change that. We don't really need or want the government to know EXACTLY who has weapons. (though, handguns are indeed registered, and records are kept.... Yeah, I am drawing a thin line. )
Trouble with background checks is: There is nothing in there about 'mental health', and if said person is 'a danger to society if armed'... and such like. According to the courts, releasing such information is a violation of the persons rights, and also a violation of doctor/patient privilege. I don't know of to many psychiatrists/psychologists that are going to want to be held responsible for making that call.... Get sued by the patient for violating his rights if you do, get sued by everyone else and their cousin if you don't, and the person goes off on a nut, and kills folks. It is indeed a tough call.
)Trouble with background checks is: There is nothing in there about 'mental health', and if said person is 'a danger to society if armed'... and such like. According to the courts, releasing such information is a violation of the persons rights, and also a violation of doctor/patient privilege. I don't know of to many psychiatrists/psychologists that are going to want to be held responsible for making that call.... Get sued by the patient for violating his rights if you do, get sued by everyone else and their cousin if you don't, and the person goes off on a nut, and kills folks. It is indeed a tough call.
There is even falsehoods about Hitler having initiated registration before he took guns away. Actually (in case anyone is interested in the facts, Bismarck was against gun ownership and Hitler supported it!)
And some states may register handguns, but not the feds. Same paperwork for handgun as a shotgun (ATF Form 4473). The fact that this has been held legal by the SCOTUS, shows that legislation on restrictions to firearms ownership is not in violation of the Second Amendment.
But writing it all off on mental health issues is a failure to see the root cause. It is a small percentage of the problem.
And I really do not have an issue with a database (not necessarily for or against- even when I owned over 100 forearms...). Why does a sex offender registry make sense when a firearms registry does not? (Rhetorical question here....
)Have Car Lot Recue on in the background while I am working.......Never saw the show before.
Last edited by gdstock; 04-16-2013 at 02:48 PM.
#8397
04-16-2013, 03:19 PM
Champion
Completed my upgrade from Debian 6.0.7 to Debian 7.0 
. Loving it, upgrade was smooth, sooo much faster, fixed a bunch of annoying bugs right off the bat! Only thing that isn't working right now is my proxy server, due to the updated libraries so when I have time I'll have to manually implement those libraries.
. Loving it, upgrade was smooth, sooo much faster, fixed a bunch of annoying bugs right off the bat! Only thing that isn't working right now is my proxy server, due to the updated libraries so when I have time I'll have to manually implement those libraries.
#8398
04-16-2013, 03:20 PM
the gun grabbers would also like you to believe that you can buy fully automatic assault rifles without a background check. WRONG...
there is a 3-6 month long FEDERAL background check that the BATFE performs, before you can acquire an automatic weapon. And on top of that, they are not legal in all states...My state for example: not legal to own a full auto weapon. We can have suppressors though which surprisingly enough a democrat changed our loophole law here to make them fully legal
Before she did that, they were legal to own, but not legal to use. Now they are legal to own and use as of last year.
suppressors also require a 3 month federal background check with the BATFE.
there is a 3-6 month long FEDERAL background check that the BATFE performs, before you can acquire an automatic weapon. And on top of that, they are not legal in all states...My state for example: not legal to own a full auto weapon. We can have suppressors though which surprisingly enough a democrat changed our loophole law here to make them fully legal
Before she did that, they were legal to own, but not legal to use. Now they are legal to own and use as of last year.
suppressors also require a 3 month federal background check with the BATFE.
#8400
04-16-2013, 05:01 PM
Grand Champion
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Lee County, North Carolina
Posts: 7,055
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes
on
5 Posts
I was thinking of the baked on black mess coating everything in the lifter valley, sludge is different.
This post is the one that sold me on it
From this thread https://dodgeforum.com/forum/2nd-gen...ld-you-do.html
This post is the one that sold me on it
I knew that was going to most likely be the case. I'm going to provide some information on this matter in order to provide you, the end user, with some knowledge on motor oil types vs. application.
I used to run AMSoil, which, is the best full synthetic oil on the market today. It really is an outstanding product and offers far more protection (based on lab results) than any other motor oil bar none. However, for an engine that is equipped with hydraulic style lifters- it was a bad choice per application.
I've also witnessed a brand new Vette with lifter clacking and, suffered from lifter collapse during hi rmp use. Same as what happened to me. Only he was running M1. He came into the shop and said he thought he blew a lifter and, we asked him what kind of oil he was running. He informed us it was OEM. Well, M1 is OEM.
The oil was immediately drained and refilled with Valvoline Dino Oil. The problem of noisy lifters was gone and, not only did it quiet down those noisy lifters, it ran better too. Smoothed out the idle as well.
I went through the same thing as he - my Dodge was running rough, it was clacking and, it would pop under when jamming on it at high rpm range.
One day, I went up to a friend of mine who's got an account with Edlebrock to order some heads, rods etc. Anyway, I went to pick the heads up and, when loading them into the rear of the truck, he noted the cases of AMS oil. He immediately got excited and told me to remove that s-h-i-t ASAP. I looked at him thinking WTF. But, before arguing, I just listened because he was very excited and, he clearly knew something that I didn't and, he was not only going to tell me what he learned, he was going to prove it to me as well by showing me some examples of motors that were in his shop torn down and needed a rebuild on them due to running full synthetics in big blocks using parts that were designed around dino oil.
He ran me through his shop and showed me engines that had major debris inside all over the internals of the engine and explained to me that was caused from synthetic motor oils. The synthetics rarely contain detergents because, they interfere with the lubrication properties and induce breakdown of of the material at the molecular level. Now, I called AMS and had spoken to their chemist and tech support to find out if this was true or not. YES- it was true. AMS does not have any detergents or any additives for cleaning the motor nor does a lot of others. In fact, on some oil makers tech support sites such as Valvoline for example, they WARN against using synthetics in engines that were running hydraulic lifters on engines designed around dino oil.
Inside all the engines running full synths regardless of brand, each engine had a hard, baked on crusty matter that covered almost everything other than piston walls, crank journals (basically everything other than interference junctions). This matter is extremely prone to flake-off thus ending up inside the oil passages thus BLOCKING them or, CLOGGING the lifters thus, inducing failure at the lifter level.
When the oil gets up to temp and, during hard use, synths have a well known issue and, that is called thinning. The oil thins out, and, a loss of hydraulic pressure is the end result thus, collapsing the lifter. This is a second mode of failure- thinning when used in hydraulic lifters.
This baked on matter was brought into this forum by myself after I removed the entire top end of the motor and ran a full inspection on every part. I noted the same results that I'd seen at California Horsepower.
After I mentioned this, other forum users began to post their engine pics and sure enough, there were more of the same. I termed the phrase: cajun BBQ crust. All running various brands of synths showed similar results- dirty engine loaded with debris.
I found that it (synths) do NOT do as good a job at cleaning the motor as a TOP QUALITY brand (Castrole or Valvoline) motor oil that is 100% petroleum based and top quality additives. Not to be confused with cheaper oils containing wax / paraffin-based like Penzoil crap but, good engineered oils.
The engines that were running dino oils showed NO crusty matter and, the metal surfaces looked just as great as they did when the went together. Shiny, clean etc. Nothing more to report here.
There's a huge difference here and, if I hadn't seen it myself, I'd still be running AMS and dealing with clacking and rough idle not knowing what the hell was wrong.
Now, if the oil is changed at OEM specified intervals, there's no issues with sludge. Sludge is associated with dino oils as everyone is aware around here but, that's not a concern if the oil is changed out regularly and new material is put in. It's a non-issue.
IN my case, after noting the problem on my own engine and, it running like crap on synthetic before rebuild and after the rebuild, I changed to Valvoline and now - to Castrol dino oil and, I've had no issues since. I'm even running the OEM lifters with 160K plus miles on them without issue. It's still nice and quiet.
For certain, there are engines that benefit from running full synthetic motor oils, but, Dodge Magnum engines are not in that application list nor are Chevy Silverado engines either. Here's another one that happened last summer.
I ran into a guy in the parts store who was looking for top quality synths and, I told him I had AMSoil. I warned him of the issues but, he persisted on buying a case from me and, well, I did.
He showed up at my shop weeks later asking me to refund him his money on the ones he didn't use. I asked what the issue was (knowing full well what the issue was) and he told me that he went out towing up in the high desert and he lost oil pressure and his engine began running rough and clacking like a SOB.
It was summer, he was loading it down, thermal loading on the engine caused the motor oil to run hot and, it thinned thus, loss of hydraulic pressure in the system thus, lifters started to collapse and, it ran rough.
Root cause for failure: Full synthetic motor oil used in the wrong application.
I told him I had warned him and, that he was more than likely going to have an issue to which he did experience exactly what I told him would happen.
He changed the oil back to Dino oil (valvoline) and told me the issue went away. Problem solved by an oil change to the OEM specified type for the application.
I hope that helps a bit. I know it was long winded but, again, I hope that you get something out of this and learn what I learned. If it wasn't for someone telling me what the hell was going on, I'd still be trying to figure it out and most likely chalk it up to a mechanical or electrical issue. It really helped me and I hope it helps you as well.
Regards,
CM
I used to run AMSoil, which, is the best full synthetic oil on the market today. It really is an outstanding product and offers far more protection (based on lab results) than any other motor oil bar none. However, for an engine that is equipped with hydraulic style lifters- it was a bad choice per application.
I've also witnessed a brand new Vette with lifter clacking and, suffered from lifter collapse during hi rmp use. Same as what happened to me. Only he was running M1. He came into the shop and said he thought he blew a lifter and, we asked him what kind of oil he was running. He informed us it was OEM. Well, M1 is OEM.
The oil was immediately drained and refilled with Valvoline Dino Oil. The problem of noisy lifters was gone and, not only did it quiet down those noisy lifters, it ran better too. Smoothed out the idle as well.
I went through the same thing as he - my Dodge was running rough, it was clacking and, it would pop under when jamming on it at high rpm range.
One day, I went up to a friend of mine who's got an account with Edlebrock to order some heads, rods etc. Anyway, I went to pick the heads up and, when loading them into the rear of the truck, he noted the cases of AMS oil. He immediately got excited and told me to remove that s-h-i-t ASAP. I looked at him thinking WTF. But, before arguing, I just listened because he was very excited and, he clearly knew something that I didn't and, he was not only going to tell me what he learned, he was going to prove it to me as well by showing me some examples of motors that were in his shop torn down and needed a rebuild on them due to running full synthetics in big blocks using parts that were designed around dino oil.
He ran me through his shop and showed me engines that had major debris inside all over the internals of the engine and explained to me that was caused from synthetic motor oils. The synthetics rarely contain detergents because, they interfere with the lubrication properties and induce breakdown of of the material at the molecular level. Now, I called AMS and had spoken to their chemist and tech support to find out if this was true or not. YES- it was true. AMS does not have any detergents or any additives for cleaning the motor nor does a lot of others. In fact, on some oil makers tech support sites such as Valvoline for example, they WARN against using synthetics in engines that were running hydraulic lifters on engines designed around dino oil.
Inside all the engines running full synths regardless of brand, each engine had a hard, baked on crusty matter that covered almost everything other than piston walls, crank journals (basically everything other than interference junctions). This matter is extremely prone to flake-off thus ending up inside the oil passages thus BLOCKING them or, CLOGGING the lifters thus, inducing failure at the lifter level.
When the oil gets up to temp and, during hard use, synths have a well known issue and, that is called thinning. The oil thins out, and, a loss of hydraulic pressure is the end result thus, collapsing the lifter. This is a second mode of failure- thinning when used in hydraulic lifters.
This baked on matter was brought into this forum by myself after I removed the entire top end of the motor and ran a full inspection on every part. I noted the same results that I'd seen at California Horsepower.
After I mentioned this, other forum users began to post their engine pics and sure enough, there were more of the same. I termed the phrase: cajun BBQ crust. All running various brands of synths showed similar results- dirty engine loaded with debris.
I found that it (synths) do NOT do as good a job at cleaning the motor as a TOP QUALITY brand (Castrole or Valvoline) motor oil that is 100% petroleum based and top quality additives. Not to be confused with cheaper oils containing wax / paraffin-based like Penzoil crap but, good engineered oils.
The engines that were running dino oils showed NO crusty matter and, the metal surfaces looked just as great as they did when the went together. Shiny, clean etc. Nothing more to report here.
There's a huge difference here and, if I hadn't seen it myself, I'd still be running AMS and dealing with clacking and rough idle not knowing what the hell was wrong.
Now, if the oil is changed at OEM specified intervals, there's no issues with sludge. Sludge is associated with dino oils as everyone is aware around here but, that's not a concern if the oil is changed out regularly and new material is put in. It's a non-issue.
IN my case, after noting the problem on my own engine and, it running like crap on synthetic before rebuild and after the rebuild, I changed to Valvoline and now - to Castrol dino oil and, I've had no issues since. I'm even running the OEM lifters with 160K plus miles on them without issue. It's still nice and quiet.
For certain, there are engines that benefit from running full synthetic motor oils, but, Dodge Magnum engines are not in that application list nor are Chevy Silverado engines either. Here's another one that happened last summer.
I ran into a guy in the parts store who was looking for top quality synths and, I told him I had AMSoil. I warned him of the issues but, he persisted on buying a case from me and, well, I did.
He showed up at my shop weeks later asking me to refund him his money on the ones he didn't use. I asked what the issue was (knowing full well what the issue was) and he told me that he went out towing up in the high desert and he lost oil pressure and his engine began running rough and clacking like a SOB.
It was summer, he was loading it down, thermal loading on the engine caused the motor oil to run hot and, it thinned thus, loss of hydraulic pressure in the system thus, lifters started to collapse and, it ran rough.
Root cause for failure: Full synthetic motor oil used in the wrong application.
I told him I had warned him and, that he was more than likely going to have an issue to which he did experience exactly what I told him would happen.
He changed the oil back to Dino oil (valvoline) and told me the issue went away. Problem solved by an oil change to the OEM specified type for the application.
I hope that helps a bit. I know it was long winded but, again, I hope that you get something out of this and learn what I learned. If it wasn't for someone telling me what the hell was going on, I'd still be trying to figure it out and most likely chalk it up to a mechanical or electrical issue. It really helped me and I hope it helps you as well.
Regards,
CM