Ham Bone's (not so) secret thread of auto to manual swap.
I get the Flintstone bit haha
So it likes to die once in while when downshifting. Especially going inn to second gear. Everything fine. Push the clutch in and the computer won't catch the engine. Just lets it die. if I punch the pedal just a little bit it will catch it.
Been three footing it a little bit cuz of that.
So it likes to die once in while when downshifting. Especially going inn to second gear. Everything fine. Push the clutch in and the computer won't catch the engine. Just lets it die. if I punch the pedal just a little bit it will catch it.
Been three footing it a little bit cuz of that.
Alright. so heres the write up
I swapped out my 46re(200k+ miles on it. RIP) it was starting to act up. for a low miles, remanufactured NV4500.
My NV4500 came out of a 2001 2500 5.9 V8 4x4. prior to mid 2000, the output on the trans was 23, same as the auto, but then they switched to 29 spline output. Which is what the diesel/v10 had been all along.
29 spline is the taller one
Because of this i had to swap my input shaft on my NP241DLD. From 23 to 29. This is relatively simple.
Planetaries the input goes into. Np231 has 3 241 has six (what I have)
Parts list(off the top of my head, will post part numbers later)
Bellhousing
Clutch kit
pressure plate boltss
flywheel bolts(need longer bolts than the flexplate ones)
throw out
pilot bearing AND sleeve
bellhousing dust shield
clutch hydraulics
pedals( just the pedals themselves, dont need the whole assembly)
shift tower, if you buy a trans separate from a parts truck
front ds for 4x4. the auto one is too long as the manual is about an inch shorter in length. I havent got one of these quit yet.
crank sensor(or shim the old one)
bellhousing to trans bolts.
bellhousing bolts for the clutch shield. they are really long for some reason??
clutch fork and pin. pivot ball if you dont have one in the bellhousing already.
things i didnt have to change
bellhousing to engine bolts
trans mount. Some have to shim theres, mine lined up fine( height wise, they do align otherwise)
the pedals pivot on a pin. its a hard space to work in. But getting the auto brake pedal out is easy, if you dont hit the pin out the wrong way like i did and jam everything up. putting new pedals in is easy.
rear ds. It is technically an inch short. But it is fine to run in the interim.
As far as acquiring parts. I bought most of this stuff from the dealer. NEW. I get a discounted price though. DO NOT try to buy this stuff at retail price like that. HOWEVER, I have all OEM equipment(mostly) and this setup should give me many miles of trouble free service. surely my engine will need rebuilding before I could get any problems out of this.
The stock clutch is a LUK unit. So that makes me happy.
removing the auto is pretty straightforward., if you are attmepting this swap im sure you can manage that. Be sure to remove the four flexplate bolts that hold the torque convertor on. then the convertor should come out with the auto trans.
the pilot bearing and sleeve are just a light press fit. go in nice and easy. the beveled end goes out towards the flywheel.
After that, it is basically a clutch job. put flywheel on. I used ARPs super awesome lubricating torque fluid stuff instead of loc tite. flex plate bolts didnt have loc tite anyway.
then its clutch time. be sure to clean the flywheel and not get anything on the disc. Pressure plate bolts and thats done. be sure to get the alignment tool.
bolt the bellhouing with clutch fork installed on. I had a hell of time gettin the trans in. The clutch fork kept falling off that little pivot ball. I wound up installing the slave cylinder to keep it pushed up against the pressure disk a little. that made everything slide in nice and easy. dont forget to grease the splines and pilot tip. but dont go crazy. keep it clean from dirt and stuff too.
the trans only has four bolts to bolt to the bellhousing. I think the rest of the job is self explanatory. trans mount, crossmember, t case yada yada.
dont forget to use mopar super expensive trans fluid for the NV4500. you NEED it. if you dont want to gamble on trashing your trans before its time after all that hard work
the pedals were the biggest pita for me. the pin has to little clips. one on each side. push those off, then push the pin out to the passenger side not the driver side. and everything will be much easier and you wont have to break out the ol sawzall.
put the pedals on. i bought new little plastic bushing. they are like 4 dollars and you need 4. dont count on being able to save the old ones.
the firewall has a rubber plug where the master for the slave goes. put that in. the pushrod goes on the pedal and the has a special pin to keep it from coming off. same as the brake pedal. be careful the old pins like to break.
cutting the hole in the floor isnt bad. take measurements and cut it before you bolt the trans up. otherwise you will have to be very carfeul as the trans is RIGHT UNDER the floor. err on the side of too big. if yo have the shifter tower on hand use that as a template.
there is one three wire plug under there. its black and white and is the center. as far as i can tell its the same for every truck ever made. At least autos. cut that and ground it and your truck will start. Tricks the pcm into thinking its in nuetral BUT you wil not have a neutral safety switch. i.e.. truck will start in gear.
thats about it for now. Sure ill think of more things and post some pics.
Afaik the dealer CAN NOT flash your auto to a pcm. At least not legally. Dealer here comfirms.
post your questions!
I swapped out my 46re(200k+ miles on it. RIP) it was starting to act up. for a low miles, remanufactured NV4500.
My NV4500 came out of a 2001 2500 5.9 V8 4x4. prior to mid 2000, the output on the trans was 23, same as the auto, but then they switched to 29 spline output. Which is what the diesel/v10 had been all along.
29 spline is the taller one
Because of this i had to swap my input shaft on my NP241DLD. From 23 to 29. This is relatively simple.
Planetaries the input goes into. Np231 has 3 241 has six (what I have)
Parts list(off the top of my head, will post part numbers later)
Bellhousing
Clutch kit
pressure plate boltss
flywheel bolts(need longer bolts than the flexplate ones)
throw out
pilot bearing AND sleeve
bellhousing dust shield
clutch hydraulics
pedals( just the pedals themselves, dont need the whole assembly)
shift tower, if you buy a trans separate from a parts truck
front ds for 4x4. the auto one is too long as the manual is about an inch shorter in length. I havent got one of these quit yet.
crank sensor(or shim the old one)
bellhousing to trans bolts.
bellhousing bolts for the clutch shield. they are really long for some reason??
clutch fork and pin. pivot ball if you dont have one in the bellhousing already.
things i didnt have to change
bellhousing to engine bolts
trans mount. Some have to shim theres, mine lined up fine( height wise, they do align otherwise)
the pedals pivot on a pin. its a hard space to work in. But getting the auto brake pedal out is easy, if you dont hit the pin out the wrong way like i did and jam everything up. putting new pedals in is easy.
rear ds. It is technically an inch short. But it is fine to run in the interim.
As far as acquiring parts. I bought most of this stuff from the dealer. NEW. I get a discounted price though. DO NOT try to buy this stuff at retail price like that. HOWEVER, I have all OEM equipment(mostly) and this setup should give me many miles of trouble free service. surely my engine will need rebuilding before I could get any problems out of this.
The stock clutch is a LUK unit. So that makes me happy.
removing the auto is pretty straightforward., if you are attmepting this swap im sure you can manage that. Be sure to remove the four flexplate bolts that hold the torque convertor on. then the convertor should come out with the auto trans.
the pilot bearing and sleeve are just a light press fit. go in nice and easy. the beveled end goes out towards the flywheel.
After that, it is basically a clutch job. put flywheel on. I used ARPs super awesome lubricating torque fluid stuff instead of loc tite. flex plate bolts didnt have loc tite anyway.
then its clutch time. be sure to clean the flywheel and not get anything on the disc. Pressure plate bolts and thats done. be sure to get the alignment tool.
bolt the bellhouing with clutch fork installed on. I had a hell of time gettin the trans in. The clutch fork kept falling off that little pivot ball. I wound up installing the slave cylinder to keep it pushed up against the pressure disk a little. that made everything slide in nice and easy. dont forget to grease the splines and pilot tip. but dont go crazy. keep it clean from dirt and stuff too.
the trans only has four bolts to bolt to the bellhousing. I think the rest of the job is self explanatory. trans mount, crossmember, t case yada yada.
dont forget to use mopar super expensive trans fluid for the NV4500. you NEED it. if you dont want to gamble on trashing your trans before its time after all that hard work
the pedals were the biggest pita for me. the pin has to little clips. one on each side. push those off, then push the pin out to the passenger side not the driver side. and everything will be much easier and you wont have to break out the ol sawzall.
put the pedals on. i bought new little plastic bushing. they are like 4 dollars and you need 4. dont count on being able to save the old ones.
the firewall has a rubber plug where the master for the slave goes. put that in. the pushrod goes on the pedal and the has a special pin to keep it from coming off. same as the brake pedal. be careful the old pins like to break.
cutting the hole in the floor isnt bad. take measurements and cut it before you bolt the trans up. otherwise you will have to be very carfeul as the trans is RIGHT UNDER the floor. err on the side of too big. if yo have the shifter tower on hand use that as a template.
there is one three wire plug under there. its black and white and is the center. as far as i can tell its the same for every truck ever made. At least autos. cut that and ground it and your truck will start. Tricks the pcm into thinking its in nuetral BUT you wil not have a neutral safety switch. i.e.. truck will start in gear.
thats about it for now. Sure ill think of more things and post some pics.
Afaik the dealer CAN NOT flash your auto to a pcm. At least not legally. Dealer here comfirms.
post your questions!
Last edited by Ham Bone; Feb 20, 2015 at 11:30 PM.
Captain
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 594
Likes: 0
From: Bluegrass State
You got one of those cool shift ***** or T bar? I was a fan of the old round ****, (when I had a 4 in the floor).
OK, Shift Tower, (not what we called it). K.
Black with white, or white ball with black.........that's what I would want.........thanks for pic.
OK, Shift Tower, (not what we called it). K.
Black with white, or white ball with black.........that's what I would want.........thanks for pic.
Last edited by tincan57; Feb 21, 2015 at 02:34 AM. Reason: OLD GUY/perfect
i have a little over 2 grand overall. But I went with all new parts sans trans(which is low mileage reman). And have a great deal of piece of mind.
Almost 100 was just that castrol syntorque. Or mopar synthetic manual transmission lube.
tincan
I actually have a core-shifters hurst short throw in it. Because the oem tower was 700 bucks! And finding a good used one is a like finding a needle in a hay stack. So far I am loving it. It shifts smooth and firm. Has a short throw for a truck trans. It cost 220 shipped to my door. I will post pics.
Lots of old trans didn't have a shift tower. The stick just threaded directly into the trans or screwed in. Whatever. Haha
Almost 100 was just that castrol syntorque. Or mopar synthetic manual transmission lube.
tincan
I actually have a core-shifters hurst short throw in it. Because the oem tower was 700 bucks! And finding a good used one is a like finding a needle in a hay stack. So far I am loving it. It shifts smooth and firm. Has a short throw for a truck trans. It cost 220 shipped to my door. I will post pics.
Lots of old trans didn't have a shift tower. The stick just threaded directly into the trans or screwed in. Whatever. Haha
Last edited by Ham Bone; Feb 20, 2015 at 11:19 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
From: Pa
Hmmm interesting. My tcase and trans are out of the same truck so I should be good. Didn't know about the different spline counts depending on year. I'm assuming I have a 241 tcase. Are all the cross members the same? Between the auto to the manuals?
Sometimes people have had to shim the trans mount because the auto corssmember was just a tad short, vertically But everything will lime up fine. It's just the height. I have a new trans mount so I suspect old sagging ones were the problem.
Administrator
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 87,572
Likes: 4,233
From: Clayton MI
Really? I wonder if that is a product of not having the PCM think there is an auto, or, if there was something bizarre with the original PCM.
Well my theory is the PCM doesn't compensate as much because normally there would be a torque converter that was still putting drag on the engine. Thus helping keep the rpms up
All the manual pcm did really was raise the idle. It catches about at 1000. Then if you're a stop light or whatever it will drop back down to the 700 area like normal.
Perhaps my logic is wrong..... I'm open to ideas.
All the manual pcm did really was raise the idle. It catches about at 1000. Then if you're a stop light or whatever it will drop back down to the 700 area like normal.
Perhaps my logic is wrong..... I'm open to ideas.
